So here is the conversation; Is bigger better? Do healthy things grow?

We have been having this conversation over at To Will One Thing, the blog of the good reverand Troy Hochstetler.
(here is the link to the actual post prompting all the conversation :: Of Interest | Thought 2)

The main question for me has been “do healthy things grow?” I want to say yes but i don’t want that to turn into bigger is better and i don’t want that to be a capitalist metaphor but rather something organic and even biblical.

Below i am going to post a few of the bath and forths of Troy’s blog. It’s to long to post the whole thing and might even be to long for you (the blog reader ((if your anything like me)) to read).

MAIN POINT :: In the world of Church / Community PLANTING do healthy things grow?
And what does that look like? Are we to measure our success on the growth our communities experience?
How should we think about this?

I think this might be an extremely important question to wrestle through for the community planter.
I think we get sucked into bigger is better and if it’s not growing it’s failing. I think those thoughts are dangerous, maybe even destructive but i can’t help to think that healthy things grow in some way. right?

So i’m wrestling with this whole idea. What do you think?

Peace
Erik

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Here are a few excerpts from the conversation on Troy’s blog.
READ AT WILL

Troy ::
“ That idea, tweaking the packaging so it is more easily accessible, points to a dangerous line of thinking: more is better.  I think the question “is bigger better?” is a fundamental question that the church-at-large needs to begin to discuss.
Some further questions: if bigger isn’t better then why are we publishing and selling lists of The Top 100 Largest and Fastest Growing Churches in America? And why will a leader in a church of ~500 people introduce herself to a leader of a church 0f ~5,000 with the words “I’m only involved in this ministry. I know it is not as significant as yours”? If bigger isn’t better then why would a church spend 5 Million Dollars on a bridge so you can get in and out of the parking lot easier? Conversely, how can the church be committed to sharing the life giving grace of Jesus without getting caught in the thinking that bigger is better?

Erik (that’s me) ::
” As far as the “bigger is better” conversation goes i have also thought a lot about this. Especially when thinking about church planting. You wonder, what is the “ideal” size? And is bigger better when it comes to trying to authentically share life with people.

I think as much as we want to fight this the “bigger is better” mentality permeates our culture and especially the Church world. My wife worked for the people who put out that 100 fastest BLAAA church list. It was there biggest push of the year, every year. And if i’m not mistaken there best selling issue.

But healthy things grow, right?
Some might say healthy things reproduce.

I would say, who knows.

Troy ::
But healthy things grow, right?
Some might say healthy things reproduce.

This. What do we do about this? If we examine the ministry of Jesus with these assumptions are they true?

Erik (that’s me) ::
Troy, good question. The short answer is…. I don’t know!

The longer answer is, i think it’s still true, “healthy things grow.”
With that statement we are / i am drawing on a metaphor, one that is organic, that speaks of plants and things that are alive around us. It would seems to me like those things grow. And most of the time those things also reproduce.

I think there is a limit to that growth, some kind of cap, maybe? Right? I will only ever grow to 6?2 (me being healthy is another debate all together). A plant usually has some kinda of cap, it might keep growing but eventually the growth slows and pruning needs to take place. And on and on…

The metaphor.

As far as Jesus goes, i mean yea he died and all but his movement, his revolution seemed to grow pretty rapidly after the resurrection. And the decline in His movement these days might be contributed to lack of health? But it general…

But seriously. I am with you, i don’t think bigger is better. But i do think growth is good. Healthy even.

?
Erik

Tony ::
As I work on getting you the Rob Bell thing, in the mean time I will tell you one thing he says (Not a direct quote):

Sometimes when you are following Jesus, leading like Jesus lead, the crowd does not increase, it thins. Sometimes its just too hard for everyone to come along.

When the gospel is spread, and it continues to do that, it has all kinds of affects on people. In almost all those cases it looks a lot like growth initially, but it’s a long road to the cross. I guess I have in mind here the parable of the sower.

What do ya’ll think?

[ READ THE REST ON TROY'S BLOG! THIS IS WAY LONG THAN I REMEMBER]
there are a few more comments but this is getting to long. It’s a good conversation though! Important even!

Share some more thought here!
Especially thoughts that concern church planting and this conversation.
How should a church planter think through this issue!

Grace and peace
Erik