January 6th, 2009 ---- by Erik

I’ve been chewing on this video for a bit now, trying to decide what I think.
What do you think?

Church pirating / church planting

I think Ed Young has a valid point, there are people who get pissed about this or that and their nature rises up and they do all they can to split a church, just to do their own thing.

BUT

Can you just write off every associate pastor as “wanting to be big and bad” and do his own thing because he decides to go across town and plant a church?

In what situation would it be ok to leave and go plant a church?

I just wonder, if your the Sr. pastor who is “getting pirated” why wouldn’t you keep your eyes fixed on Jesus and let that pastor/pirate go and whatever people feel called go with him.

Obviously Ed places a large value on size, it oozes from in-between all his words. Maybe, just maybe building a big and bigger church isn’t the point anyway and if some pirate comes a long and “steels” some of your sheep (which are really God’s and not yours) maybe you just let it happen and trust God. 
(Are we all sucked into the value of big steeple ((as Rob Bell would say))

I understand it isn’t always that easy. When people you love and have invested life in up and leave, it hurts. But maybe that’s ok too. It seems like the only thing you can really control as a pastor is your heart and attitude, despite how hard that might be. Jesus might be a good example for us here, don’t ya think.

// A couple more thoughts…

One of the major points he makes is to equate the church to a business and he says, “in the corporate world, the church pirate would be put in jail.” I think that really blows his argument. The church IS NOT a business and shouldn’t function like it. (despite the fact way to many do).

A couple other things Ed says that just hit me wrong…
:: If you think that your big and bad go out and do it your self, don’t steel my sheep.
:: The lack of loyalty, the lack of commitment, the level of betrayal is mind boggling…

I am really interested in hearing what you have to say…

Peace and pirates!
Erik

7 Responses to “Ed Young and The Church Pirate”

  1. Douglas Weaver Says:
    January 8th, 2009 at 3:42 am

    Wow – this is truly sad. My first inclination is to say this man has limited understanding of the body. He is still stuck in the clergy/laity divide, he still sees the church as his and he still places blame on the “laymen” for the woes of pastors.

    But after watching I feel sad for this brother. He has obviously been hurt. If only he could see the body beyond churchianity. If only it wasn’t about his ministry. If only he realized we are co-laborers, not owners.

    If only.

  2. Gretchen Fagan Says:
    January 9th, 2009 at 4:20 pm

    I think you and Douglas said everything that could be said (and that I was thinking). I have seen this type of rhetoric before and all I can say is that it is just plain creepy. Wish I had something more intelligent or positive to offer.

  3. Chris Says:
    January 10th, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    I’m REALLY not an Ed Young fan, and this does nothing to change that. I had some pastor friends who started having theological differences with their church (the biggest in the Raleigh area), and went to the lead pastor and talked to him about it. He said “Sounds like we need to plant a new church. How can I help make that happen?”
    Todd and I were involved in something more similar to what Ed Young describes. Todd was pretty much fired and my wife and I felt pretty much run off, along with a bunch of others. (We got several sermons along the lines of Mr. Youngs in those days. “Vision Vandals” was one of them, I believe.)
    Which of these scenarios make more sense? Which is more Godly?

  4. Thomas McKenzie Says:
    January 10th, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    Mr. Young, whom I had never heard of until viewing this video, seems to have a strange proprietary understanding of the Kingdom of God.

    He also has a fundamental misunderstanding of the corporate world. If someone were to leave a company and take fellow employees and clients with him, he would not go to jail. He might get sued. It would depend in large part on whether or not he had signed a “non-compete agreement.” In my years in the church, I have never seen a church version of the “non-complete” agreement, but perhaps Mr. Young would like to use it in his corporation. I mean “church.”

    That said, I believe that in scenarios like he is describing there is plenty of blame to go around. The results of the Fall are evenly distributed.

    Since many Evangelical and non-denom churches are based in large part on the personality of the pastor, it makes sense that personality conflicts with other would-be lead pastors would cause division. In such a case, it may be that the basis of the split, while perhaps having a theological element, is also a result of sinfulness on both sides. As well as a poor ecclessiology.

    In any case, God’s kingdom continues to advance. If a church gets so large that it is capable of spinning off other congregations, perhaps it is the will of God that this take place. And God has this funny way of using anything, even our sinfulness, to accomplish his purposes.

  5. Erik Says:
    January 12th, 2009 at 8:01 am

    Chris :: i agree, the your first story seems a little more in line with my understand of the Gospel & Jesus. For sure.

    Thomas :: That is exactly what i was saying / thinking, i am just not sure Ed’s vision of the Kingdom is very “well rounded”. Ahhh, that’s to nice! It’s pretty poor, at least this video and a few other things i have heard him say would lead me to think that.

    Now no doubt, Ed is doing some great things, i love a lot of the innovation and openness he and his community have but i think they have a pretty poor ecclessiology for sure.

    And the fact that the Kingdom keeps advancing is the very think i think we / pastors need to be focusing on. Paul seems to do a good job of that (Phil. ch 1)

    thanks for the conversation, keep it coming!

    Grace and Peace
    Erik

  6. Planting? Transplanting? Pirating? « JimmyMcLoud.com Says:
    January 20th, 2009 at 6:22 am

    [...] mega-church, pastor, repentance, sorrow, Willits, Young } I came across this video clip on Erik Willits‘ blog today. I watch Ed Young almost every week on Fellowship Church’s website. [...]

  7. Felipe Says:
    January 30th, 2009 at 11:58 am

    To be honest I think Ed is being a bit hypocritical here. I know that he has been accused by many of the same things.

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