Comments on: Ed Young and The Church Pirate http://erikwillits.com/CP/?p=43 A conversation abour planting Jesus following communities Fri, 14 May 2010 23:20:40 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.2 hourly 1 By: Felipe http://erikwillits.com/CP/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-121 Felipe Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:58:13 +0000 http://erikwillits.com/CP/?p=43#comment-121 To be honest I think Ed is being a bit hypocritical here. I know that he has been accused by many of the same things. To be honest I think Ed is being a bit hypocritical here. I know that he has been accused by many of the same things.

]]> By: Planting? Transplanting? Pirating? « JimmyMcLoud.com http://erikwillits.com/CP/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-110 Planting? Transplanting? Pirating? « JimmyMcLoud.com Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:22:10 +0000 http://erikwillits.com/CP/?p=43#comment-110 [...] mega-church, pastor, repentance, sorrow, Willits, Young } I came across this video clip on Erik Willits‘ blog today. I watch Ed Young almost every week on Fellowship Church’s website. [...] [...] mega-church, pastor, repentance, sorrow, Willits, Young } I came across this video clip on Erik Willits‘ blog today. I watch Ed Young almost every week on Fellowship Church’s website. [...]

]]> By: Erik http://erikwillits.com/CP/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-106 Erik Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:01:35 +0000 http://erikwillits.com/CP/?p=43#comment-106 Chris :: i agree, the your first story seems a little more in line with my understand of the Gospel & Jesus. For sure. Thomas :: That is exactly what i was saying / thinking, i am just not sure Ed's vision of the Kingdom is very "well rounded". Ahhh, that's to nice! It's pretty poor, at least this video and a few other things i have heard him say would lead me to think that. Now no doubt, Ed is doing some great things, i love a lot of the innovation and openness he and his community have but i think they have a pretty poor ecclessiology for sure. And the fact that the Kingdom keeps advancing is the very think i think we / pastors need to be focusing on. Paul seems to do a good job of that (Phil. ch 1) thanks for the conversation, keep it coming! Grace and Peace Erik Chris :: i agree, the your first story seems a little more in line with my understand of the Gospel & Jesus. For sure.

Thomas :: That is exactly what i was saying / thinking, i am just not sure Ed’s vision of the Kingdom is very “well rounded”. Ahhh, that’s to nice! It’s pretty poor, at least this video and a few other things i have heard him say would lead me to think that.

Now no doubt, Ed is doing some great things, i love a lot of the innovation and openness he and his community have but i think they have a pretty poor ecclessiology for sure.

And the fact that the Kingdom keeps advancing is the very think i think we / pastors need to be focusing on. Paul seems to do a good job of that (Phil. ch 1)

thanks for the conversation, keep it coming!

Grace and Peace
Erik

]]> By: Thomas McKenzie http://erikwillits.com/CP/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-105 Thomas McKenzie Sat, 10 Jan 2009 18:36:58 +0000 http://erikwillits.com/CP/?p=43#comment-105 Mr. Young, whom I had never heard of until viewing this video, seems to have a strange proprietary understanding of the Kingdom of God. He also has a fundamental misunderstanding of the corporate world. If someone were to leave a company and take fellow employees and clients with him, he would not go to jail. He might get sued. It would depend in large part on whether or not he had signed a "non-compete agreement." In my years in the church, I have never seen a church version of the "non-complete" agreement, but perhaps Mr. Young would like to use it in his corporation. I mean "church." That said, I believe that in scenarios like he is describing there is plenty of blame to go around. The results of the Fall are evenly distributed. Since many Evangelical and non-denom churches are based in large part on the personality of the pastor, it makes sense that personality conflicts with other would-be lead pastors would cause division. In such a case, it may be that the basis of the split, while perhaps having a theological element, is also a result of sinfulness on both sides. As well as a poor ecclessiology. In any case, God's kingdom continues to advance. If a church gets so large that it is capable of spinning off other congregations, perhaps it is the will of God that this take place. And God has this funny way of using anything, even our sinfulness, to accomplish his purposes. Mr. Young, whom I had never heard of until viewing this video, seems to have a strange proprietary understanding of the Kingdom of God.

He also has a fundamental misunderstanding of the corporate world. If someone were to leave a company and take fellow employees and clients with him, he would not go to jail. He might get sued. It would depend in large part on whether or not he had signed a “non-compete agreement.” In my years in the church, I have never seen a church version of the “non-complete” agreement, but perhaps Mr. Young would like to use it in his corporation. I mean “church.”

That said, I believe that in scenarios like he is describing there is plenty of blame to go around. The results of the Fall are evenly distributed.

Since many Evangelical and non-denom churches are based in large part on the personality of the pastor, it makes sense that personality conflicts with other would-be lead pastors would cause division. In such a case, it may be that the basis of the split, while perhaps having a theological element, is also a result of sinfulness on both sides. As well as a poor ecclessiology.

In any case, God’s kingdom continues to advance. If a church gets so large that it is capable of spinning off other congregations, perhaps it is the will of God that this take place. And God has this funny way of using anything, even our sinfulness, to accomplish his purposes.

]]> By: Chris http://erikwillits.com/CP/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-104 Chris Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:18:45 +0000 http://erikwillits.com/CP/?p=43#comment-104 I'm REALLY not an Ed Young fan, and this does nothing to change that. I had some pastor friends who started having theological differences with their church (the biggest in the Raleigh area), and went to the lead pastor and talked to him about it. He said "Sounds like we need to plant a new church. How can I help make that happen?" Todd and I were involved in something more similar to what Ed Young describes. Todd was pretty much fired and my wife and I felt pretty much run off, along with a bunch of others. (We got several sermons along the lines of Mr. Youngs in those days. "Vision Vandals" was one of them, I believe.) Which of these scenarios make more sense? Which is more Godly? I’m REALLY not an Ed Young fan, and this does nothing to change that. I had some pastor friends who started having theological differences with their church (the biggest in the Raleigh area), and went to the lead pastor and talked to him about it. He said “Sounds like we need to plant a new church. How can I help make that happen?”
Todd and I were involved in something more similar to what Ed Young describes. Todd was pretty much fired and my wife and I felt pretty much run off, along with a bunch of others. (We got several sermons along the lines of Mr. Youngs in those days. “Vision Vandals” was one of them, I believe.)
Which of these scenarios make more sense? Which is more Godly?

]]> By: Gretchen Fagan http://erikwillits.com/CP/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-103 Gretchen Fagan Fri, 09 Jan 2009 16:20:00 +0000 http://erikwillits.com/CP/?p=43#comment-103 I think you and Douglas said everything that could be said (and that I was thinking). I have seen this type of rhetoric before and all I can say is that it is just plain creepy. Wish I had something more intelligent or positive to offer. I think you and Douglas said everything that could be said (and that I was thinking). I have seen this type of rhetoric before and all I can say is that it is just plain creepy. Wish I had something more intelligent or positive to offer.

]]> By: Douglas Weaver http://erikwillits.com/CP/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-102 Douglas Weaver Thu, 08 Jan 2009 03:42:30 +0000 http://erikwillits.com/CP/?p=43#comment-102 Wow - this is truly sad. My first inclination is to say this man has limited understanding of the body. He is still stuck in the clergy/laity divide, he still sees the church as his and he still places blame on the "laymen" for the woes of pastors. But after watching I feel sad for this brother. He has obviously been hurt. If only he could see the body beyond churchianity. If only it wasn't about his ministry. If only he realized we are co-laborers, not owners. If only. Wow – this is truly sad. My first inclination is to say this man has limited understanding of the body. He is still stuck in the clergy/laity divide, he still sees the church as his and he still places blame on the “laymen” for the woes of pastors.

But after watching I feel sad for this brother. He has obviously been hurt. If only he could see the body beyond churchianity. If only it wasn’t about his ministry. If only he realized we are co-laborers, not owners.

If only.

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