I thought this video was close enough to the heart of community planting because maybe more than any other form on “Churching” one needs to be creative and an ideator for a community to thrive.

Are ideas & dreams the seeds of a community plant?
Maybe!

Charles Lee had this conversation with mike foster (above) on ideation over at his blog the other day. (a ling to the post on Charles’ blog)
Check that link out above to get all Mike’s links and what not. It’s definitely worth checking out.

I had a very similar conversation with Mike on the phone a couple weeks ago about this very subjuct pertaining to a specific idea that the good reverend Nate Wells and I are dreaming up (more on that to come! ? ). But I thought I would share this because mike is a stud and says some good things. And also thing this can pertain to community planting as i mentioned. Which Nate dog and i also dream about.

So check it out ABOVE!

So here is the conversation; Is bigger better? Do healthy things grow?

We have been having this conversation over at To Will One Thing, the blog of the good reverand Troy Hochstetler.
(here is the link to the actual post prompting all the conversation :: Of Interest | Thought 2)

The main question for me has been “do healthy things grow?” I want to say yes but i don’t want that to turn into bigger is better and i don’t want that to be a capitalist metaphor but rather something organic and even biblical.

Below i am going to post a few of the bath and forths of Troy’s blog. It’s to long to post the whole thing and might even be to long for you (the blog reader ((if your anything like me)) to read).

MAIN POINT :: In the world of Church / Community PLANTING do healthy things grow?
And what does that look like? Are we to measure our success on the growth our communities experience?
How should we think about this?

I think this might be an extremely important question to wrestle through for the community planter.
I think we get sucked into bigger is better and if it’s not growing it’s failing. I think those thoughts are dangerous, maybe even destructive but i can’t help to think that healthy things grow in some way. right?

So i’m wrestling with this whole idea. What do you think?

Peace
Erik

——————————

Here are a few excerpts from the conversation on Troy’s blog.
READ AT WILL

Troy ::
“ That idea, tweaking the packaging so it is more easily accessible, points to a dangerous line of thinking: more is better.  I think the question “is bigger better?” is a fundamental question that the church-at-large needs to begin to discuss.
Some further questions: if bigger isn’t better then why are we publishing and selling lists of The Top 100 Largest and Fastest Growing Churches in America? And why will a leader in a church of ~500 people introduce herself to a leader of a church 0f ~5,000 with the words “I’m only involved in this ministry. I know it is not as significant as yours”? If bigger isn’t better then why would a church spend 5 Million Dollars on a bridge so you can get in and out of the parking lot easier? Conversely, how can the church be committed to sharing the life giving grace of Jesus without getting caught in the thinking that bigger is better?

Erik (that’s me) ::
” As far as the “bigger is better” conversation goes i have also thought a lot about this. Especially when thinking about church planting. You wonder, what is the “ideal” size? And is bigger better when it comes to trying to authentically share life with people.

I think as much as we want to fight this the “bigger is better” mentality permeates our culture and especially the Church world. My wife worked for the people who put out that 100 fastest BLAAA church list. It was there biggest push of the year, every year. And if i’m not mistaken there best selling issue.

But healthy things grow, right?
Some might say healthy things reproduce.

I would say, who knows.

Troy ::
But healthy things grow, right?
Some might say healthy things reproduce.

This. What do we do about this? If we examine the ministry of Jesus with these assumptions are they true?

Erik (that’s me) ::
Troy, good question. The short answer is…. I don’t know!

The longer answer is, i think it’s still true, “healthy things grow.”
With that statement we are / i am drawing on a metaphor, one that is organic, that speaks of plants and things that are alive around us. It would seems to me like those things grow. And most of the time those things also reproduce.

I think there is a limit to that growth, some kind of cap, maybe? Right? I will only ever grow to 6?2 (me being healthy is another debate all together). A plant usually has some kinda of cap, it might keep growing but eventually the growth slows and pruning needs to take place. And on and on…

The metaphor.

As far as Jesus goes, i mean yea he died and all but his movement, his revolution seemed to grow pretty rapidly after the resurrection. And the decline in His movement these days might be contributed to lack of health? But it general…

But seriously. I am with you, i don’t think bigger is better. But i do think growth is good. Healthy even.

?
Erik

Tony ::
As I work on getting you the Rob Bell thing, in the mean time I will tell you one thing he says (Not a direct quote):

Sometimes when you are following Jesus, leading like Jesus lead, the crowd does not increase, it thins. Sometimes its just too hard for everyone to come along.

When the gospel is spread, and it continues to do that, it has all kinds of affects on people. In almost all those cases it looks a lot like growth initially, but it’s a long road to the cross. I guess I have in mind here the parable of the sower.

What do ya’ll think?

[ READ THE REST ON TROY'S BLOG! THIS IS WAY LONG THAN I REMEMBER]
there are a few more comments but this is getting to long. It’s a good conversation though! Important even!

Share some more thought here!
Especially thoughts that concern church planting and this conversation.
How should a church planter think through this issue!

Grace and peace
Erik

epoch randomly starting following me on twitter tonight so i have been looking into them a bit. What they are doing sound kinda cool! So here is there little bio paragraph and intro video, also cool.

“The Epoch Center for Missional Church Planting is about training the next generation of urban missional-minded church planters, leaders, thinkers, and activists. Our goal is nothing less than to light the spark that erupts into a church planting movement. A Church Planting Movement is defined as “a rapid and multiplicative increase of indigenous churches planting churches within a given people group or population segment” (from David Garrison’s Church Planting Movements). We seek to offer city-focused field-based education for those who’re hungry to learn how to be a part of this movement. We’re looking for ordinary people who’re willing to make ordinary attempts who collectively will ignite this new epoch.”

They also have a blog their connect with called The Urban Loft. Has some thought provoking content that would be worth check out.

I’ve always been drawn to the city. Not sure that is where i will end up or plant a church but i love the city and the focus of epoch is on city / urban church planting. I am interested to read a bit more about them and see what there all about.

What you think?

Grace and peace
Erik

Follow epoch on twitter :: I do!

A friend of mine, Erick Ewaskowitz is a fellow conversation partner in the community planting world. He is on route to plant a community of Christ followers in the Milwaukee area in a year or so. Right now he is doing an internship of sorts at a church plant in Naperville IL. So he’s on the journey, has some great insight, is is experiencing the world of church planting full force.

His blog / community planting conversation is entitle; Planting a movement. i would encourage you to read and engage in his conversation as well.

I had a conversation a few weeks back with Todd Hunter. Todd was recently elected bishop in the Anglican Church, AMiA. But not only is he a bishop in the Anglican Mission (AMiA) he is also a church planter. His church Holy Trinity recently had their launch (September I believe).

Todd also heads up a church planting network called C4SO :: Churches 4 the Sake of Others. Their goal is to plan 100 churches in the next 10 years in the Western United States.

Enough info, our conversation was great and I would like to share and get some of your thoughts.

One of things that Todd said that particularly peak my interested was his thoughts on where your call comes from. He said that a church planters call typically come from one of three places;

.:: Demographic
.:: Geographic
.:: Psychographic

My best understand of these categories is as follows ::
.:: The demographic call is one that is based on a people group. i.e. young adults, young families, men 25-35, etc. A certain “demographic of people”.
.:: Geographic is pretty easy. You are called to a particular location. Maybe a city or even a certain part of a city, i.e. urban, suburban, etc.
.:: Psychographic was a new word to me but to my best understand it’s a certain type of person, a certain “psychology”. i.e. unchurched; people who have never done the church thing, disgruntle with church; people who are pissed at church and don’t care for Christians, etc. Maybe a religious background, or people with a certain world view would fit into this category?

Those were the three categories that Todd tossed out. In our conversation I was honest with Todd and told him that none of those really resonated with me. For me it’s more of community and team calling. My calling seems to be connected to where a core of people will be and where a team of leaders might be found. I might use / make up the word, relationographic; where there are relationships established and a community is just waiting to burst through the cracks.

Todd was very gracious as i tried to explained to him what this meant for me.

From the beginning I have know I wanted to and was called to plant a community with a community / a team of people. I have never wanted to do on my own and I have never wanted to be the “figure head” or “personality” of the community. A lot of my reason for waiting to actually do something has been based on my desire for the right relationships to happen. There are a few different relationship that might be brewing as the fertilizer  for a community (running with the planting metaphor). I’m praying about that.

But my question for you is what do you think about these categories?
What do you think about my addition?
How were you called? And would your call fit into one of these categories?

I would really love to hear what you think.

Grace and Peace
Erik

Often when i think about planting a church i think about values. What will be the core values of a community i plant? What will be our heart?

I think that the things or the thing you decide to be at the core of your community says a lot about you and what you hope to be as a community. So this is important!
And most churches know this and have central on their website, “Core Values” or something a long those line.

So what are the values of your community?
What should be the central value of a Jesus following community?
I have some ideas but i would love to hear what you think.

Here are a couple links ::

Mars Hill articulates there core values in a unique way.  They call them directions. I like what they are saying and i feel like they include some often left out parts.

Here is a video of a man who is planting a community or an organization (i was confused) articulating the core value he and his wife have.

I really like what he is saying and where his heart is at. I’m not sure i agree with this being the single core of a Jesus following community but definitely a part.
What do you think?
(and can anyone help me understand why he’s climbing a rock?)

And here is a link to the Apostles Creed.
Maybe enough said!

So yea, let’s talk values! Core! Directions! Priorities!
Whatever you want to call them, let’s talk em’.

Grace and peace
Erik

Here is a little video i ran across.
It’s Lutheran Church MS video on their church planting goals.

i have a lot of thought on this. I think they make some good points and they have some goals but i wonder if we can become to mechanical in our approach to church planting?

That and other question come to mind.
But i’ll just let you watch the video…

What do you think?
And i would LOVE to hear from some Urban Church planter? What was your experience and your method.
DO SHARE!

Peace

So what’s your ecclesiology?

I wonder how many of you church planters really thought that through when you were preparing to dive into your church planting adventure.

You have an ecclesiology, that’s inevitable but how intentional were you about thinking it through and forming the workings of it into your community life.

Every once in awhile i will surf the internets looking at church websites, looking for things and ways of doing things that resonates with me. And almost ever church has a “mission statement”. (thank you Willow Creek) and just about every church has a list of their “core beliefs”.

I’m not saying these things are not important, i actually think they are, they are very important. But often it’s interesting what a list like this or a mission statement will say about a particular communities ecclesiology.

For instance, ALMOST every church starts their LIST of beliefs… (i don’t particularly like lists, maybe your catching on to that) … with a statement on their view of scripture. This really says a lot about what’s important to them, what they are trying to defend and build their community on. If we were a real bible believing and living community what might be the first thing on our list? My guess is that it probably wouldn’t be the bible! What do you think?

I could ramble on on on!

It just seems poorly focused and ecclesiologically misshapen to concentrate on some of these things we do and to order our communities the way we do.

I’m reading a book right now about Anglican ecclesiology and  will probably share more about this in the days to come but the reading in general has just got me thinking about ecclesiology for the community planter.

What do you think?

Peace & CHURCH
Erik

I was pointed to a blog the other day by Thomas (ihajj.net) and i REALLY liked it! The post is by Chris Folmsbee and i just think he has some really solid things to say about youth ministry!

But the more i thought about it i think some of his idea are things we should really take to heart and aim for as church / community planters as well.  

Here is Chris’s link :: Youth Ministry: If I were to do it again…
(this is a must read if you in youth ministry for sure! So definitely go read the full post!)

I’m just going to share a few of the things he said that i think specifically apply to community planting.

// Act theologically before methodologically  
// Be more of a spiritual director than a program director
// Spend more time investing in interns/co-pastors
// Ask less of my volunteers and yet equip them more
// Celebrate the successes in the lives of students (people) with greater regularity and intensity
// Take students (people) on way more spiritual retreats
// Work hard to be more collaborative with the youth workers (pastors) in my city
// Take more time off to be with my wife and kids
// Be more intentional with a confirmation process
// Find time to laugh and play more
// Try to learn more from the staff instead of thinking I have all the answers
// Take the criticism of others more seriously and less defensively
// Meet with my spiritual director more often
// Take personal retreats more often
// Be way more missional and a lot less attractional in my approach or model
// Pray more and develop a team of people to pray with
// Call the students (people) to greater levels of holiness
// Spend a lot more time creating opportunities for students (community) to practice justice
// Allow the more artistic students (people) opportunities to express themselves and their love for God.
// Teach much more conversationally
// Try to enter into the joy, pain, loss, doubt, hurt, etc. of the students (people) and their families

As i went through this list i realized almost ALL of the things Chris put on his list would be healthy things for a pastor to incorporate as well. What do think? 

Peace
Erik

Sorry i have slacked on this blog! I am constantly think of things to post on here and running across resources that i think are interesting for the sake of conversation. But life is crazy! Working a couple jobs (kinda) and just running around i guess!

BUT i really am going to try and be more “regular” on this blog. At least once a week or so. So stay tuned and give us a shout. It’s always encouraging to know people are participating in the conversation.

Be Peace
Erik