I’ve been chewing on this video for a bit now, trying to decide what I think.
What do you think?

Church pirating / church planting

I think Ed Young has a valid point, there are people who get pissed about this or that and their nature rises up and they do all they can to split a church, just to do their own thing.

BUT

Can you just write off every associate pastor as “wanting to be big and bad” and do his own thing because he decides to go across town and plant a church?

In what situation would it be ok to leave and go plant a church?

I just wonder, if your the Sr. pastor who is “getting pirated” why wouldn’t you keep your eyes fixed on Jesus and let that pastor/pirate go and whatever people feel called go with him.

Obviously Ed places a large value on size, it oozes from in-between all his words. Maybe, just maybe building a big and bigger church isn’t the point anyway and if some pirate comes a long and “steels” some of your sheep (which are really God’s and not yours) maybe you just let it happen and trust God. 
(Are we all sucked into the value of big steeple ((as Rob Bell would say))

I understand it isn’t always that easy. When people you love and have invested life in up and leave, it hurts. But maybe that’s ok too. It seems like the only thing you can really control as a pastor is your heart and attitude, despite how hard that might be. Jesus might be a good example for us here, don’t ya think.

// A couple more thoughts…

One of the major points he makes is to equate the church to a business and he says, “in the corporate world, the church pirate would be put in jail.” I think that really blows his argument. The church IS NOT a business and shouldn’t function like it. (despite the fact way to many do).

A couple other things Ed says that just hit me wrong…
:: If you think that your big and bad go out and do it your self, don’t steel my sheep.
:: The lack of loyalty, the lack of commitment, the level of betrayal is mind boggling…

I am really interested in hearing what you have to say…

Peace and pirates!
Erik

I am reading a couple books this Christmas break that i think will really benefit the conversation here.

You can check out the page on this blog entitled READS. This page lets you know what Todd and i are reading that pertains to this conversation. I have said a few words there about these books. 

Here’s what i’m into…

Tim Keel posted a quote on his blog that give some insight into the monastic perspective on community. I really like it! You should check it out.

And if this is really an honest way to do community, which i suspect it is, how might that change how we “plant” a community (plant a church)? It doesn’t really seem like current methods of church planting have this kind of idea any where on their radar.

An thought?

Grace and peace :: because of a baby!
Erik

PS :: i have a few more post to come. They are rattling around in brain so i’ll get em out soon. 
Stay tuned! 

Well a lot people are blogging about this and even more people are posting this video on blogs and twittering about it… but oh well, it’s a good video.

So here are the questions…
#1.) How do we really do this?
Yea, you can go the uber spiritual route but how does the normal Christ follower do this. (there might not be such a thing as a “normal” Christ follower but that’s a different topic. HOw do you really do this? Can you spend less? Can you give more? Can you make a difference?

ALL good questions.

Can we make this more than just a trendy move to drop a couple coins? Can we really spend less?

As we think about this in the context of a community, i just wonder how this works? If we were to be brutally honest 99.9% of us are so trapped in the matrix that is our consumer culture that we might do a couple things that are counter culture, or revolutionary… but we are still apart of the system.

Maybe things like this advent conspiracy are little ways of breaking free but what does it look like for a community of people to really be serious about breaking free of this world and living in a way that brings the Kingdom to come?

Just thinking… just conspiring.

The typical growing church and I think just about every large “mega” church (not that being a mega church will ever be a goal of mine) but these communities aren’t really known for following the Church calendar or really participating in any kind of orthodox liturgy. They might participate in the Eucharist once a month or something like that but that’s about it. They celebrate Christmas and Easter but other than those days the yearly life of the Church is kinda lost in these communities.

When Mars Hill Bible Church decided to participate in Lent a couple years ago people thought that was wild, revolutionary even. Seriously? There was a Catholic church next to the college I went to and 2 or 3 years when I was in college I went to this church on Ash Wednesday, participated in their service, even took communion (shhh, don’t tell anybody who is Catholic). Then once I got out of college I have, every year i have found an Episcopal church to celebrate Ash Wednesday with and start the Lenten season. This is not novel or revolultionary, this is what the Church does and has done for hundreds of years.

I just wonder if communities miss out on part of what it means to follow God when we don’t pay any attention to our calendar.

I have recently began attending an Anglican church and they rigursouly adhere to the church calendar. We read the lectionary readings every Sunday and Thomas (the pastor / priest guy) preaches one of these readings. It’s a different experience for me but my wife and I are really enjoying thus far.

I bring up this topic because it’s Advent and Advent officially starts our Calendar.

But more specifically I bring it up to get your feedback and ideas on following the Calendar and participating in the church year as a community.

[ SOME QUESTIONS ]

Why don’t most modern, growing, relevant, “successful” communities follow the Christian calendar?

I always wonder if it’s an all or nothing thing. Do you either have to really follow the Calendar or just not follow it at all? (Christmas and Easter don’t count).

Is there any really good examples of a church really doing some great thing, growing and serving in their context and being shaped by the church year?
I want to good examples. Know of any?

I think Mars Hill is actually doing some Advent action this year. I haven’t listened or looked into it yet though.

SO yea, what are you thoughts?
DO SHARE!

This weekend i am giving most of my attention to blogging about the National Youth Workers / YS conference i have been attending. 

There isn’t much specifically about church planting but i am just taking some general notes and giving some play by play of the experience. If you care to read you can go to my blog erikwillitsblog.com and click on the YS Conference catergory and read all the post and look at all the pictures. 

Enjoy

Media Monday was my initial thought but i don’t really want to be locked into Monday so the title of these posts will be media TODAY! The idea is to do a little review / give some thoughts on some media i run across that pertains to community planting. Probably LOTS of youtube video or other church media. 

My goal is to put up a media today post once a week to join in and further cultivate the conversation that we are having and other people are having on ministry, specifically planting ministries. 

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Our 1.0 post is an interview i listened to yesterday. The interview is by Cameron Strang of Relevant, he is interviewing Rob Bell of Mars Hill Bible Church. 

Bell says some pretty significant things about church ministry and leadership that i thought were pretty good. But Bell always says good stuff. 

They talk a lot about his most recent book, Jesus wants to save Christians. I haven’t actually read it yet. I’m slowing working through it. But i have listened to a bunch of messages that give content to the book. Solid stuff for sure! 

enjoy the interview :: here’s the link :: Rob Bell interview

Relevant has this new-er branch of what they do, i am sure i will be discusing some of there content here on our media today posts. You can check it out for yourself :: www.neueministry.com

And if you check it out fast! you can watch the newest Rob Bell Nooma film in it’s entirety. 

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A final P.S. Most of these post will have more context and / or conversation specifically about community planting. This was 1.0 and i had listened to this interview yesterday. I didn’t take note or anything so i just posted some general info. Next time be ready for some serious convo! Got it! 

Be peace

After a long delay, I thought it would be good to start walking through the nine themes covered in “Emerging Churches” by Gibbs and Bolger.  The first is “identifying with Jesus,” which seems pretty general and something every church probably claims for themselves.

In the emerging church, identifying with Jesus takes the form of  emphasizing the kingdom of God as the telos of the church.  This changes the direction of the church “from a centripetal (flowing in) to a centrifugal (flowing out) dynamic.  This in turn [leads] to a shift in emphasis from attacting crowds to equipping, dispersing, and multiplying Christ followers as a central function of the church (50-51).”  The point of church is not to get as many people as possible to come to a worship service on Sunday morning.  Rather, the point of church is to participate in the kingdom of God by focusing on discipleship or following Jesus.

In my opinion, a gift of the house church is the fact that it is not dependent on the number of people who show up on a given Sunday.  Since it is a small group that is not recognized as a formal institution, it will only be recognized by the ways that the group flows out into their local and global communities.

Emphasizing the kingdom of God as the telos of the church moves away from an understanding of the gospel as simply a matter of personal salvation.  Yes, personal salvation is certainly a part of the gospel, but it is not the whole story.  Many churches I am familiar with see as their mission to get as many people as possible “saved.”  The gospel is good news for individual sinners.  Emerging churches tend to see the gospel as God reconciling, restoring and redeeming the entire world.  The gospel is good news for the entire world  Therefore, the mission of the church is not just about saving individuals, but about participating with God in God’s work of reconciliation, restoration and redemption.

To summarize, for the emerging church, identifying with Jesus means moving the church outward instead of expecting movement inward, and seeing salvation as the kingdom of God, which is holistic and not individualistic.

I certainly resonate with this understanding of what it means to follow Jesus.  Do you?

WHEN?

When is this going to happen? When is the right time?

This is a question I have been thinking about a lot lately. Tim Keel in his book Intuitive Leadership (pg.63) talks about kairos time. He just brings up the point that God often stirs these kairos moments in the chaos of our lives.

Kairos being the “right” time. Opposed to Chronos which has more to do with chronological time.

[ funny side note :: the chaplin at my university preached a message on this very thing my freshman year. The bad part was that he decided it was the coolest idea ever and totally over played it. The kairos time became a huge joke the rest of my five years in college. But looking back on it, it really was a great message. Kudos to Bill Bray and shame on all of us for giving him such a hard time. ]

But yea, I am looking for that kairos momemnt to go forward with this whole community planting thing. But how do you ya know? My fear is that this is usually an unanswerable question. NOW is never the right time, the convenient time, or the easy time. Is it? That’s why I am looking for that kairos moment, I need that kairos moment. But I also need Jesus to open my mind, my heart, and my eyes to see it!

In my head I am wanting something to form organically. I want it to fall into my lap. I’m just not sure that always happens, at least not the way we expect it to.

SO, when is the “right“ time?

My question I have for you…
// How did you know it was the “right” time?
    (especially if you have planted a church PLEASE answer that question.)
// How did your story lead up to it being the “right” time?

DO SHARE!

Waiting for the “right” time
Erik

Dave Ferguson shot out a twitter today informing his “followers” that the planting channel is broadcasting live from the Urban Church Planting Conference. 1. i didn’t know about the Planting Channel  2. i didn’t know about the Urban Church Planting Conference. I don’t really have time right now to check it out but they both sound very cool! If i have time to check it out i will post more about it but for now here are the links. 

Planting Channel .com

Info about the Urban Church Planting Conference

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PS :: Just to inform ANYONE who might actually read this thing, i just moved to Nashville and am getting settled in! The plans are to seriously getting rolling with this blog ASAP! 

Peace
Erik